Cryscoat 2707 iron phosphate 1 gallon

[Guest]

Remember the 3 step process with this product.

Do not use unless it is over 80 degrees and up to 120 degrees.

First Bucket Contains 3% to 4% Phosphate to Water Ratio. A gallon of Phosphate goes a long way

Second Bucket contains only water at the same temp as the First Bucket.

Third Bucket contains only cool water. This bucket is the final rinse.

Try to keep PH levels of the buckets at 5 PH for the best results. Use Phosphate Up or Down to control levels. You can find those inexpensive products at you local Pool Store.

I recommend that you submerse the parts in the Phosphate rather than spray. Less mess to clean up and submersion has a better even coverage.

If you will be spraying the Phosphate then you will need to keep the parts completely soaked for at least 2 to 3 minutes through all three steps.

Don't use a fine sprayer that makes a mist. It will super cool your temps. fast and take forever to soak the parts. Use a soak setting on the sprayer and keep the water hot.

You can use an aquarium heater for the hot water and Phosphate buckets.

Occasionally stir the Phosphate bucket for great dispersion of the Phosphate.

This is one of easiest things you can do for corrosion control.

We always have this product in stock and it is a good thing to have around your shop as well.

Lenny Round 615-776-7600 ext 207

Here's the Link to our page.

http://www.powderbuythepound.com/CRY...HATE_1_GALLON/

[Guest]

Hi Lenny,
I am new to powder coating and with what little I have accomplished, I realize the need for something to defend against rust development under the powder paint. I recently purchased a gallon of Cryscoat, a new 5 gal. plastic bucket with lid, and a 20 gallon aquarium tank heater. I went to mix and found no instructions so I came to the forum for help. I assumed that I could just rinse the parts after submersion in the Cryscoat and you advise a two tank rinse system. That would mean purchase of 2 more tanks and another heater. How necessary is this for the Cryscoat to do it's job? My thought are that it is just a water rinse, why the elevated temp and then into cool water? What exactly does this accomplish? I do want a finish that will last as I am doing restoration of car parts. Would it be possible to post exactly what is needed along with the times for submersion in each process?
Thanks,
Paul

[Guest]

Good Morning Paul,

Let me take your Questions one at a time.

Your 1st Question:::
I recently purchased a gallon of Cryscoat, a new 5 gal. plastic bucket with lid, and a 20 gallon aquarium tank heater. I went to mix and found no instructions so I came to the forum for help. I assumed that I could just rinse the parts after submersion in the Cryscoat and you advise a two tank rinse system.

Yes, the Two Tank system is necessary to apply/activate, and then rinse down the reaction. Actually it is a three step process with a cold water rinse. You should have a third bucket for the cold water. The cold water shuts down the oxidation reaction on the metal surface.

Question Two::: How necessary is this for the Cryscoat to do it's job? Answer:: Completely.

Question Three::: why the elevated temp and then into cool water? Answer:: The Phosphate is designed to activate at 80 to 120 degrees. Warm rinse cleans away the Phosphate and the cold water shuts it down.

Follow these directions:::

APPLICATION CONDITIONS:::

Spray ~ Concentration: 3-4% by volume
Temperature: 80-120F
Time: 1 - 2 minutes
Nozzle pressure: 10 - 30 psi
Immersion ~ Concentration: 3-4% by volume
Temperature: 80-120F
Time: 2 - 4 minutes
PH Should be at 5.0

TYPICAL PROCESS:::

1. Clean and phosphatize.
2. Warm water rinse.
3. Final Cool Water post rinse

[Guest]

Here's the straight and skinny on the Phosphate Process

Phosphate conversion coating

Phosphate coatings are used on steel parts for corrosion resistance, lubricity, or as a foundation for subsequent coatings or painting. It serves as a conversion coating in which a dilute solution of phosphoric acid and phosphate salts is applied via spraying or immersion and chemically reacts with the surface of the part being coated to form a layer of insoluble, crystalline phosphates.

Phosphate conversion coatings can also be used on aluminium, zinc, cadmium, silver and tin.

The main types of phosphate coatings are manganese, iron and zinc. Manganese phosphates are used both for corrosion resistance and lubricity and are applied only by immersion. Iron phosphates are typically used as a base for further coatings or painting and are applied by immersion or by spraying. Zinc phosphates are used for rust proofing, a lubricant base layer, and as a paint/coating base and can also be applied by immersion or spraying.

The application of phosphate coatings makes use of phosphoric acid and takes advantage of the low solubility of phosphates in medium or high pH solutions. Iron, zinc or manganese phosphate salts are dissolved in a solution of phosphoric acid. When steel or iron parts are placed in the phosphoric acid, a classic acid and metal reaction takes place which locally depletes the hydronium (H3O+) ions, raising the pH, and causing the dissolved salt to fall out of solution and be precipitated on the surface.

The acid and metal reaction also creates iron phosphate locally which may also be deposited. In the case of depositing zinc phosphate or manganese phosphate the additional iron phosphate is frequently an undesirable addition to the coating.

The acid and metal reaction also generates hydrogen gas in the form of tiny bubbles that adhere to the surface of the metal. These prevent the acid from reaching the metal surface and slows down the reaction. To overcome this sodium nitrite is frequently added to act as an oxidizing agent that reacts with the hydrogen to form water. This chemistry is known as a nitrate accelerated solution. Hydrogen is prevented from forming a passivating layer on the surface by the oxidant additive.

The following is a typical phosphating procedure:

cleaning the surface
rinsing
surface activation (in some cases)
phosphating
rinsing
neutralizing rinse (optional)
drying

application of supplemental coatings: lubricants, sealers, oil, etc.
The performance of the phosphate coating is significantly dependent on the crystal structure as well as the weight. For example, a microcrystalline structure is usually optimal for corrosion resistance or subsequent painting. A coarse grain structure impregnated with oil, however, may be the most desirable for wear resistance. These factors are controlled by selecting the appropriate phosphate solution, using various additives, and controlling bath temperature, concentration, and phosphating time.

A widely used additive is to seed the metal surface with tiny particles of titanium salts by adding these to the rinse bath preceding the phosphating. This is known as activation.

Uses::

Phosphate coatings are often used to provide corrosion resistance, however, phosphate coatings on their own do not provide this because the coating is porous. Therefore, oil or other sealers are used to achieve corrosion resistance. This coating is called a phosphate and oil coating. Zinc and manganese coatings are used to help break in components subject to wear and help prevent galling.

Most phosphate coatings serve as a surface preparation for further coating and/or painting, a function it performs effectively with excellent adhesion and electric isolation. The porosity allows the additional materials to seep into the phosphate coating and become mechanically interlocked after drying. The dielectric nature will electrically isolate anodic and cathodic areas on the surface of the part, minimizing underfilm corrosion that sometimes occurs at the interface of the paint/coating and the substrate.

[Guest]

Lenny,
Much appreciated,
Paul

[Guest]

Your Welcome Paul, Anytime my friend

[Guest]

Lenny,
I have done the process and I can see a difference in the metal surface. I glass tail wheel for an Aeronca and a pulley from a Chevy V-8. After following instructions, you can see a difference in the surface since glass beaded. Now three more questions.
How long should parts soak in the warm rinse and the cool rinse?
With the aquarium heater off and a lid installed on the phosphate can (plastic), how long can the mix set without being used.
Last question - how do you tell when the mixture is spent?
Thanks again,
Paul

[Guest]

Hi Paul,

Warm water rinse for for no less than 2 minutes. You can go longer but not shorter.

Cold water rinse for about the same to make sure the Phosphate is gone from the surface of the metal.

Dry and paint.

You can store the mixed water/phosphate bucket for as long as you need with a lid.

We cycle the water/phosphate bucket for each new class for training purposes but that bucket will last a few weeks if you cover it.

[Guest]

Thanks again,
Paul

[Guest]

Hello again,
I had my batch in a covered 5 gal white plastic bucket with lid on and side cut out to accept the tank heater. It has been sitting unheated since we last conversed. Yesterday, I removed the lid to turn on the heater as I am getting ready for another batch and I noticed that the liquid is now an orange color like rusty water. Out of curiosity, I used a clear plastic jar and dipped it in the pail and that looks better than peering into the pail but, you can still see the discoloration. I also checked the inside of the pail by rubbing a finger on the side and bottom and nothing is clinging to it, the discoloration is in suspension. Is the solution still usable?

[Guest]

Good Morning s3paul,

The answer to your last question is YES The solution is still usable.

What you have is some left over suspended oxide floating round in the solution. It is not hindering the oxidation process on the next parts you put in. Just keep an eye on what the parts look like after they come out of the Phosphate solution and how long it takes for them to meet your visual match for a good coating of oxide.

When you start to see that your parts are coming out clearer than you want after 5 minutes then it is time to change out the solution for a new batch.

Carry on Sir!
Lenny

[Guest]

Thanks again,
Paul

[Guest]

You are completely welcome s3paul, Anytime.

[hoefler]

Lenny,

I am considering using an old water heater for a submersion tank for the phosphate. It is a 80 gallon electric tank that was replaced because of calcium build up. I would be cutting it approximately in half, cleaned out ( which cannot bet done through the available openings ), and fabricating a lid to fit, giving it about a 35 gallon capacity with a 24" opening. It already has a thermostat and a heating element, when properly wired and temperature set, do you see any issues in with this setup??

Thanks, Ed

[Guest]

Hi Ed,
The idea is sound but what I'm wondering about is the element. What is it made out of? If it is a raw metal then we might have a reaction with the Iron Phosphate. Maybe if you removed the element and put an Epoxy FDA Approved powder coat on it would work...

The Coating would be able to withstand the heat developed for the solution because it only needs to hold the solution temperature to around 100 F. That won't even burn your hands.

You have a very interesting question here my friend... I would try it because if it works then Shazam! If not you can always drop a plastic 100 gallon Aquarium Heater in there and get the same results.

Those are not very expensive and can be replaced with a short lunch break and trip to the pet store. Marine Land Heaters have a life time replacement deal like Craftsman Tools. I use them at home in my fish tanks and they hold temp very well.