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**Guest** · 01-20-2009, 01:05 AM

Re: New type Controller help

[attachment=0:184a1zwn]CD101 new.jpg[/attachment:184a1zwn]

Not sure exactly what your SSR wiring routing is, so I'll take a quick stab at this. My setup uses a contacter instead of a SSR, but I believe they're wired up the same. I tried to make a drawing, but it went fail, so let me just write it out by terminal number. I'm also assuming you're using standard 110-120 volt input.

1 - 110v L1 This is normally one leg of power input. Also run jumper wire to terminal 4 of
controller.

2 - 110v L2 This normally is the other leg of power input. Also include jumper wire to one side of
Contacter or SSR.

3 - Not Used

4 - Jumper wire input from terminal 1

5 - Contacter or SSR N/O (normally open) Run wire from either this terminal or terminal 6 to other
side of Contacter or SSR.

6 - Contacter or SSR N/O (normally open) Same as above. Should not matter which terminal you
use. In relay setup (as per drawing), they are both N/O
and either can be used.

7 - Not Used

8 - Not Used

9 - Not Used

10 - Not Used

11 - T/C Positive

12 - T/C Negative

Hopefully this makes a little sense to you. This is how mine is setup and I have had absolutely no issues with mine. Tomorrow, I will put together a drawing of this and post it up if you want. I do want to say that I'm not 100% positive this is correct for you, as I don't know how your SSR or contacter should be wired. Looking at your drawing, though, this setup will work for you. Let me know if you have any other questions and/or you want that drawing.

**tedsfab** · 01-20-2009, 11:45 AM

Re: New type Controller help

i think he just answered your question duke .

**Guest** · 01-20-2009, 12:40 PM

Re: New type Controller help

Hey rigbender. Thanks for jumping in there with your help. As Ted said you hit the nail on the head but it was my head that it fell out of on what you said do and Ted on the phone had to put said nail back in place

It is a contactor not a SSR( brain was in wrong gear) Just got off the phone with Ted and what we decided is that the neutral will go to lug 2 as you were saying (it shows N on the drawing) lug 5 we think goes back to the contactor to fire it up like normal. Number 6 lug is the one in question as to what it does or needs to do if any thing? I guess I will find out in a little while after I take the neutral off #6 and move it to #2. Number 5 or 6 should fire the contactor?

The way this pizza oven is set up it has two temp range controls. One for the bottom and one for the top elements and they can be set to off/low/med and high. And they will be off for this test. All I need is for the contactor to come on and then I will be good to go as soon as I set up the controller to suit me . I HOPE

**Guest** · 01-20-2009, 05:19 PM

Re: New type Controller help

UPDATE UPDATE Well its kind of working

After doing testing with my volt/ohm meter I found that lug 3 would put out 120v when it would come on so I ended up going from it to the contactor and it would come in and the go out and on like maybe it should? lugs 5 and 6 were doing nothing really?

My problem now is how to set the temp? Can't seem to find what I want to do that? Found the alarm so I could set it. I am more used to the Auber for what I am looking for and some times I have trouble getting there on it if I have not had to do it lately. (getting old you know

)

On this unit with me having to get the contactor to come on using the #3 lug I just wonder if the TC might be in the wrong place also? It will come on and start heating then shut off around 100+ some where then I will stick the TC in some ice and it will kick back in or something is making it kick back in?

This controller might have a problem??? So if you any good ideas let me have them?

Might be time for me to contact my buddy in the Keys having a beer or 12 pk and get him to help like he did when I went to the Auber Ramp controller.

And to beat it all while I was in my shop it had the nerve to drop 1" of frigging snow. So will you northern and mid western guys come a get this stuff please.

**Guest** · 01-20-2009, 06:14 PM

Re: New type Controller help

Originally posted by polert

Just my thoughts, and experience SSR blow Duke. I would go nominal 110V to controller which feeds a nominal 110V output from controller to close a cube contactor that will feed the oven elements nominal 220V. SSR are great for control logic, and robots but have a short life to cost factor in a algorithm heating mode.

My Screw up on SSR it is a normal Contactor. (SSR was brain fart)

**Guest** · 01-20-2009, 09:42 PM

Re: New type Controller help

You may be getting power from the controller terminal #3, but imo this isn't correct.

The terminal configuration 3.2 clearly shows that terminals 4, 5 & 6 are the relay contacts. Terminal 4 is the common which will get a hot connection. Terminal 5 is the normally open(NO) contact and should be wired to the contactor coil. The drawing has a 'no' symbol by terminal 6 also, but this is obviously wrong as the drawing shows terminal 6 to be normally closed(NC). This is consistent with almost all pid controllers I've seen. You cannot have both contacts 5 & 6 normally open, as the relay can only switch to one position, not both.

If you want to test the above relay contacts, just remember that the relay will not close until the set temperature is greater than the present temperature.

The thermocoupler belongs on terminals 11 & 12. Just make sure the polarity is correct.

The controller can be powered with either 120 or 240 vac so terminals 1 & 2 can both be hot, or one can be a neutral. They are not polarity sensitive.

Here is a schematic I have for a pid and contactor using 13 & 14 terminals for the relay. Just move the wires going from 13 & 14 to 4 & 5 respectively on your controller and it should be fine.

**Guest** · 01-20-2009, 10:16 PM

Re: New type Controller help

After thinking about this awhile I went and reviewed the manual again. First off, I have to say this is the poorest excuse for a pid controller manual I've seen yet.

Most pids have a parameter that needs to be set that tells the controller how you intend to use the control output relay. This controller can be configured with a trigger, triac, voltage pulse output or relay output.

Here is the only sentence I can find concerning this:

*2: Relay Contact output 20 sec the voltage pulse output/value control the tube by Trigger output/the valve control the tube output for 2 seconds.

Obviously who ever wrote this has no comprehension of the English language. Right now I have no idea what the parameter settings need to be for using a 'relay output'.

**Guest** · 01-20-2009, 10:40 PM

Re: New type Controller help

Originally posted by ed1966ss

After thinking about this awhile I went and reviewed the manual again. First off, I have to say this is the poorest excuse for a pid controller manual I've seen yet.

Most pids have a parameter that needs to be set that tells the controller how you intend to use the output relay. This controller can be configured with a trigger, triac, voltage pulse output or relay output.

Here is the only sentence I can find concerning this:

*2: Relay Contact output 20 sec the voltage pulse output/value control the tube by Trigger output/the valve control the tube output for 2 seconds.

Obviously who ever wrote this has no comprehension of the English language. Right now I have no idea what the parameter settings need to be for using a 'relay output'.

You for sure have that right on the instructions. I would look at the Auber ins and then look back at these and just not there? Something for sure is missing! I have also got use to using my ramp one. I have never used the simple Auber one that came with my oven. It fried right off the bat and I went to the ram soak one. I do you the reg one for my clamp on TC and my alarm is wired to it. So all i set was the alarm function

I am for sure as lost as you except I have it so I can olay with it but getting no where. I I would take my volt meter and go from #1 to #5 or 6 I would read 120 looked like? The same reading I would get from #1 to #2 neutral. But when you would go from 5 or 6 to N you had 19 or 20 volts? In fact not sure where the point was when I even did that? Might have been a .020 or .120? and not 120.0 whatever? Even when I messed with it and got it to click on it would not send any thing to #5 or 6?

I am lost! The quickest fix is have Auber send me one

and then be good to go

**Guest** · 01-21-2009, 01:01 AM

Re: New type Controller help

Ok here is a drawing of what I wrote up last night. I've also included a small diagram on the contactor and element wiring also. This is exactly how mine is setup.

[attachment=0:14wvevi8]Drawing.gif[/attachment:14wvevi8]

One thing to mention, ed1966ss was correct about the 2 terminals. 5 would be N/O (normal open) and 6 would be N/C (normal closed). Brain fart on my part on top of the manual drawings having a misprint.

On the part about setting the parameter for the the type of control, the PID's autotuning feature should set this due to how the wiring is done. Reading over the manual and menu settings, I don't see anywhere to set this parameter, so I'm gonna assume that the PID sets this via autotuning. The sentence "*2: Relay Contact output 20 sec the voltage pulse output/value control the tube by Trigger output/the valve control the tube output for 2 seconds" actually has nothing to do with setting the type of control. This refers to the length of time, i.e. 20 seconds, that the contactor is engaged to control the heating/cooling ramp speeds when using ramp control.

As for this:

I am for sure as lost as you except I have it so I can olay with it but getting no where. I I would take my volt meter and go from #1 to #5 or 6 I would read 120 looked like? The same reading I would get from #1 to #2 neutral. But when you would go from 5 or 6 to N you had 19 or 20 volts? In fact not sure where the point was when I even did that? Might have been a .020 or .120? and not 120.0 whatever? Even when I messed with it and got it to click on it would not send any thing to #5 or 6?

I wouldn't worry too much about what voltages you're getting. All this has to do is send a signal from the controller to tell the contactor to engage.

Hopefully this helps make it a little less confusing, especially the drawing.

**Guest** · 01-21-2009, 10:37 AM

Re: New type Controller help

A comment or two on the drawing. You are putting 240 vac on the contactor coil. Make sure this is correct as coils can be rated 24, 120 or 240 vac. Also the drawing is for a single pole contactor. If using a double pole, the wiring would be someone different.

You may be right about autotuning setting the parameters, but there is nothing in the document that directly addresses it. But perhaps based on the omission of any parameter settings one could deduce that autotuning is responsible for all parameter settings.

So a couple of possibilities on how the pid could recognize the output:

For control output, terminals 4, 5 & 6 are used. The drawing for the relay setting is the only one that uses #4, so it could be assumed that if #4 had 120 vac then the control output would be set to relay.

To drive an SSR the terminals 5 & 6 would need to be '+' and '-' DC voltage. This voltage is supplied from the pid. So the pid would need to recognize that an ssr was attached to #5 & #6? Perhaps the statement that the current load resistance needs to be 600ohms or more/less determines if the output mode is configured for an ssr or output pulse?

So Duke, assuming this to be correct you would need to have everything connected: pid, contactor, tc and elements. Then run autotuning and see what happens.

Here is a schematic I have for a 2 pole contactor with 120 vac coil:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8509 ... er3sw0.pdf

For your configuration move the tc to terminals 11 & 12. Also move the connections on terminals 13 & 14 to 4 and 5 respectively.

**Guest** · 01-21-2009, 10:46 AM

Re: New type Controller help

hi rigbender and ed1966ss I am posting this any way and going to copy what you just posted ed1966ss.
Well I guess I will go try some more things and get the wiring back right. I am going to stay with the neutral on #2 and one run from #5 back to the other side of the contactor and if I can't get that to work I will switch things around and try your way but I need to fig out what to do with my neutral wire that is connected to the other side of the contactor right now?

Also I will make sure it is seeing the TC ok. I think it is.

Then I will see if I can do something here as you stated?
"On the part about setting the parameter for the the type of control, the PID's autotuning feature should set this due to how the wiring is done. Reading over the manual and menu settings, I don't see anywhere to set this parameter, so I'm gonna assume that the PID sets this via autotuning."

The unit is starting up in the stop? Maybe I hit something to get it there? But can't get it to show start or what ever it should show? With the way I have it wired is coming on and off as I said before.

**Guest** · 01-21-2009, 10:52 AM

Re: New type Controller help

Originally posted by duke 46

Well I guess I will go try some more things and get the wiring back right. I am going to stay with the neutral on #2 and one run from #5 back to the other side of the contactor and if I can't get that to work I will switch things around and try your way but I need to fig out what to do with my neutral wire that is connected to the other side of the contactor right now? Assuming you have a 120 vac contactor coil, the coil should get one feed from terminal # 5 from the pid and the other side should get a neutral connected to your supply circuit.

I updated and posted a schematic I have on the previous post. Maybe that will help.

Remember though that the autotuning will only work with the complete system(pid, contactor, tc and elements) installed and working.

**Guest** · 01-21-2009, 11:19 AM

Re: New type Controller help

Headed down to the shop in a few. Wish me LUCK I guess

I have been reading so much that my OLD BRAIN wants a BREAK

**Guest** · 01-21-2009, 05:52 PM

Re: New type Controller help

Well guys. I give it up

my contactor is 120 so no wire the double way. The only way you can make it even come on is wired to #3 or wired with the jumper to 4 or either wire to 4 and jumper to 3. Comes on and cuts off in a few and back on. Can't get SHT wiring it right

After the controller comes on it shows what is shown on sec 5.1 #1 but #2 shows 400 not 1372? and then it goes to STOP and I can not make it start wired correct? I set it for autotune and it took about 3 hours going from a 17 to a 30 showing in PV area and the auto tune light blinking. So I went up the street and came back and it was back on 28? So enough of it I guess? I wish I could get the damn thing to at least show the temp in the PV area and I could use it with a probe only like I have setup on my big oven that is used for my clamp on TC and then to the alarm. BUT NOOOOOOO.

Now do I shoot it with my 9MM or drive over it with my 17,000 lb truck or just maybe hitch it to my welder wide open and play connect the dots ( PLEASE DON'T DO THIS A HOME LET THE OLD MAN DO IT)

Hell do all three

I did give in and ordered a new one from Auber (http://auberins.com) Maybe I want have to ask any ? on that one. I have two of them already. But being and old guy that does not mean squat

Thanks a lot you guys. You have gone as far to the limit as you can with this controller.

Duke

If you want to talk about it give me a PM with a # and when. I have free calling after 7 EST and on week ends unless I have you on my list of callings like Jason and Ted and PBTP and that dag CP guy in OK.

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New type Controller help

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