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Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

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  • Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

    How many of you have problems doing multiple items in basecoat/topcoat combinations, maybe all at the same time, maybe spread out over a couple of batches, maybe even different days or longer periods of time getting the same coloration without variations in shade? That really nice looking set (at least I thought) of Acura wheels I just did has a very subtle color change from light, to a tiny bit darker, to a tiny bit darker, to a tiny bit darker yet (No, it is NOT a bonded metallic gold). I didn't notice it when I was shooting the wheels (2 at a time btw), didn't notice it when they were laying on my shop floor under my pretty darned good lighting, didn't notice it when I was out in the sun taking pictures of them, didn't notice it in the back of my truck when the customer and I were checking them out, didn't notice it when we carried them into his place and laid them out on the floor to inspect them. That was yesterday. Today I get a call from the guy and he said he set them all side by side out in the sun and they didn't match, so now he wants them redone. So...if I redo them, they'll probably all be a different color too...or will they be a more consistant color since it will be gold over gold instead of gold over blasted aluminum? Is this what I have to expect when applying metallics and translucents? Is gold more prone to this differnce in shade, or are all metallics like that? Seems like the gold is the worst to me. I know I'm ranting, but I hate do-overs, and they looked so good to me I'm just bummed. Anyway, I plan on re-shooting just the faces of the 4 in the gold, and re-clearing the whole thing again. It better work, or I'll be giving him 4 free samples and not getting any more work from him. Rant over....for now.

    Here are the wheels in question.
    Dan
    sigpic

    I carry a gun because I'm too young to die, and too old to take an ass-whoopin'!

  • #2
    Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

    Originally posted by wiseguyz
    How many of you have problems doing multiple items in basecoat/topcoat combinations, maybe all at the same time, maybe spread out over a couple of batches, maybe even different days or longer periods of time getting the same coloration without variations in shade? That really nice looking set (at least I thought) of Acura wheels I just did has a very subtle color change from light, to a tiny bit darker, to a tiny bit darker, to a tiny bit darker yet (No, it is NOT a bonded metallic gold). I didn't notice it when I was shooting the wheels (2 at a time btw), didn't notice it when they were laying on my shop floor under my pretty darned good lighting, didn't notice it when I was out in the sun taking pictures of them, didn't notice it in the back of my truck when the customer and I were checking them out, didn't notice it when we carried them into his place and laid them out on the floor to inspect them. That was yesterday. Today I get a call from the guy and he said he set them all side by side out in the sun and they didn't match, so now he wants them redone. So...if I redo them, they'll probably all be a different color too...or will they be a more consistant color since it will be gold over gold instead of gold over blasted aluminum? Is this what I have to expect when applying metallics and translucents? Is gold more prone to this differnce in shade, or are all metallics like that? Seems like the gold is the worst to me. I know I'm ranting, but I hate do-overs, and they looked so good to me I'm just bummed. Anyway, I plan on re-shooting just the faces of the 4 in the gold, and re-clearing the whole thing again. It better work, or I'll be giving him 4 free samples and not getting any more work from him. Rant over....for now.

    Here are the wheels in question.
    I'm not the pro here, so I can't answer the question, but...

    How noticeable is it? Not like they are going to ALL be right next to each other when they are mounted. Once they are on the car you'll see only 2 - and they'll be 8 feet apart.

    I know you need to please the customer, but how much of a problem is it? I can't imagine you could REALLY tell something like that once they are installed.

    Can you convince him to look at them as they will be used before insisting you redo them?

    They look great to me BTW.


    Jay

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    • #3
      Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

      Thanks for the compliment, Jay. The variation is pretty slight if you ask me, but this guy is more anal than my wife says I am. Problem is, he sells custom wheels and parts to tuner guys. This set are takeoffs from his own car that probably won't ever even be put back on a car. His exact comment to me was: "I said I didn't care what color of gold they were as long as they were all the same. If these had been for a customer of mine, I'd be f***ed." Quote, unquote. I just said "Fine, I'll be happy to try and re-shoot the face and try to get them all closer to the same color. Then he said "alright, but if thats as close as you can get them, we won't be having you powdercoat wheels." There ya go, and therein lies my dilema. Either I fix it, or no business. And he is one of the top custom retailers in our local area. I don't know whether to just stay away from golds or transparent colors, or stay away from wheels altogether. They seem to be a lot more trouble than they're worth so far.
      Dan
      sigpic

      I carry a gun because I'm too young to die, and too old to take an ass-whoopin'!

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      • #4
        Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

        I think if you use a light colored base coat that'll help alot. I've had probs with "color shades" using the EW gold, so I'll be using a base coat before the gold for now.

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        • #5
          Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

          I just returned from the 2 day Surface Finishing Academy PC course, and in the manual that they hand out it lists a few things in the "trouble shooting" section about metallics.

          It mentions any change in Kv will affect the metallic to base color ratio (metallic and base are 2 separate/different colors) - making it lighter or darker.

          Slight changes in gun to part distance may be enough also.

          They specify hitting any potential cage areas first, then coat the rest of the part uniformly.

          Easier said than done, I know...

          I think he's overreacting a bit. Just the angle of the light will make metallics look different.

          Sounds like he's the type of guy with a big mouth that would tell everyone he meets that he's not happy, so I guess I'd just redo it ...


          Jay

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          • #6
            Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

            Dan the man!!!!!

            First off here is your first issue NIC Alloy Gold

            If you prepped them the same, shot them good or the same, and baked them the same....I am going to blame it on powder.

            IF you get a metallic powder and it has been sitting for a long time (I can see gold doing this since its not used much) the metallic little particles can start to settle at the bottom. This can give you variations in you final product.

            WHEN USING ANY POWDER...Shake it up before you put it in your gun.

            This matters the most on these custom parts that people want PERFECT with the most difficult colors.

            I hope this helps. They look good to me, and I bet if they were on the car you wouldn't even notice.

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            • #7
              Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

              Thanks for all the input guys. I'll let you know how coat 3 (gold) and coat 4 (clear) turn out. I'm sure glad I got this chinese gema gun so it will actually DO multiple coats cold! By the way, tonight I replaced the ground wire and clamp that came with the gun with a heavier #4 stranded ground wire and heavy jumper cable clamp to my hanger rack. It worked good before, so should work even better now. I'll keep you posted.
              Dan
              sigpic

              I carry a gun because I'm too young to die, and too old to take an ass-whoopin'!

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              • #8
                Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

                Originally posted by Powder_Coating_Pros
                (SNIP) IF you get a metallic powder and it has been sitting for a long time (I can see gold doing this since its not used much) the metallic little particles can start to settle at the bottom. This can give you variations in you final product.

                WHEN USING ANY POWDER...Shake it up before you put it in your gun. (SNIP)
                Another good point.

                The Tiger rep that presented the seminar recommended stirring and sifting the powder to even it out as well.

                He also highly recommended a fluidized hopper for metallics and textures to make it easier to get consistent results.


                Jay

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                • #9
                  Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

                  Or a $4,000 box-feed Wagner gun with the vibratory base. I'll get there eventually.
                  Dan
                  sigpic

                  I carry a gun because I'm too young to die, and too old to take an ass-whoopin'!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

                    Originally posted by wiseguyz
                    Or a $4,000 box-feed Wagner gun with the vibratory base. I'll get there eventually.
                    He actually didn't like box feed at all for metallics - fluidized hopper only.


                    Jay

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                    • #11
                      Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

                      The fluidizing hopper with a true membrane is best used for metallics and clears (including candies and translucents) !

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                      • #12
                        Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

                        That begs the question then...will the chinese gun (both the ebay one like mine and the one you will carry) be compatible with the 3-lb fluidizing hopper that PBTP sells? One more thing to research as long as you're testing the new "KING KOAT" gema knock-off.
                        Dan
                        sigpic

                        I carry a gun because I'm too young to die, and too old to take an ass-whoopin'!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

                          I would think that you'd need some sort of an adapter for the gun to "draw/suck" the powder in vs gravity fed from the top? Could be kind of pricey...

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                          • #14
                            Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

                            Originally posted by Harleydad
                            Originally posted by BeeBob
                            I would think that you'd need some sort of an adapter for the gun to "draw/suck" the powder in vs gravity fed from the top? Could be kind of pricey...
                            Not all that expensive, if you already have a box feed.

                            http://www.powderbuythepound.com/catalo ... cts_id=136
                            But I don't have a box-feed. I have a cup gun like the chinese gun PBTP is selling now. (just slightly different)
                            Dan
                            sigpic

                            I carry a gun because I'm too young to die, and too old to take an ass-whoopin'!

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                            • #15
                              Re: Do you guys have problems with slight color variations?

                              On the Happy Family Cup Gun adaptations need to be made to the gun to allow for a fluidizing hopper

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