Business Management or similar forum?

[Guest]

It seems like after a lot of discussion the idea of a price list sticky or dedicated pricing section doesn't seem like an effective way to assist members when making a decision on cost/profit. There are several reasons for this, it will be messy and difficult to query and it's also a false representation of what costs and prices should in an area-by-area basis.

nolatodd's post on the this thread got me thinking about a lot of other things that are not strictly related to pricing though.

I see a significant amount of posts covering the same common questions in regards to marketing (where do I find customers and do I get them?), equipment (should I build an oven or buy a new one?), other resources (blasting media, blasting cabinets, degrease, etc), and of course pricing.

Right now these posts are scattered through out the different sections without really being related to the area they are in. An example of this would be an oven or blasting cabinet that can be used to cure powder or ceramic.

I am suggesting a forum that contains stickies like.... I'm sure there is an endless number of threads, these are just some that I can think off the top of my head.

"Figuring out and starting your cost sheet"
"How to price ceramic coating jobs"
"How to calculate hours per job"

I realize that a lot of these threads already exist. However, they are sometimes hidden or archived in a fashion where they become inactive and usually not very useful. This forum would also only be available to PBTP forum members, just like the off-topic area.

Please keep in mind that I'm just thinking out loud here. If for any reason this doesn't sound like a good idea, just let me know. I'm always looking out for the best interest of all the coaters in here and hope that they growth results in even more business for our great folks at PBTP. This place has already shown A LOT of business talent and I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions on this.

[Guest]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

Its funny...I was liking the idea of a pricing section myself...but now I don't think I do. I think Juans idea of a how to price things section is even better. It is SUCH an important part of running a business and it is the one thing that most people have a hard time dealing with. A pricing section or list or whatever is going to lead to lazyness in the long run. Whats it cost...look it up...done. but that is a really bad business practice. It doesn't matter at all if for instance Juan can do a job at $300 and make a profit if in my situation I'm losing $50 on it I can't do that job.

The reality of business is that if you can't make a profit (or at least break even), you can't do it. Someone elses price list is maybe good as a base line, like if you figure out your costs and it is far lower, jack up your price a bit, but you can't just drop to someone elses scale without looking at if it will work.

[Guest]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

The key thing is that there are plenty of places online or even local resources to teach everyone how to run a business in general. They all use broad terms... "this is your cost, here is your profit, blah blah" but that applies to everything from restaurants to beauty salons and car shops to powder coating. We need something specific to the powder coating industry, specifically to the members of this forum that deal with vendors and suppliers for so many things and usually with the same objective, to do as much as possible with as little as possible.

[Streetwerkz]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

I agree every place is different, and charges/pays different amounts.

For us just starting out, and having NO CLUE what to charge
So we got online and found every price list we could find, averaged it out nationally, then called every powder coater in our state and price shopped them.

Then with anything, it was trial, and error from there, but by doing it this way we had a national average for pricing, and applied it locally.
has worked out pretty good for us as a BASIC guide.
as with anything, nothing is perfect.

You really have to add every cost you have, pay roll, electric, gas, phone, toilet paper, etc over the prior years bill, add 10% to the total number, and divide per 8 hr shift to get your hourly operating cost, then break it down to the minute. We bill in 15 minute increments divided by our hourly rate.
then we have to apply that figure to every person "man hours"
so if your shop rate is $10 pr hour, and 4 people are working, then $40 pr hour billed to you client.
sounds simple, but it can be tricky to get a handle on, but every second you are working on a clients part, you should get paid for it.

An example is a lawyer told me once over dinner that he had a idea jump in his head for a case he was working on. He excused himself from the table for 20 minutes to call his assistant and get his idea in motion. when he sat back down to the table to rejoin the conversation he logged his time to make sure his firm added the call time to the clients bill.

thats when it hit me that I need to get paid for every second of my time also, my job/work is just as important as the lawyers, and I should be compensated just as he is.

We should all be paid for every second of work we do

[Guest]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

Yea Streetwerkz that hourly breakdown is perfect. Then you know your cost to have that guy standing there. And for anyone running a 1 man shop...you still have a cost for standing there too!

Another huge thing that I don't think people focus nearly enough on is a real business plan. I was talking to a friend the other day who is wanting to start a t-shirt company. I asked him if he had a business plan and he told me "Yes! We make a bunch of shirts, sell them, and we get rich!". Though it sounds like a wonderful idea, that is not a business plan A business plan is like a map. You start at point A, you end up at point B and just like a map if you stray from the path along the way you can see that as it is happening and change things. Just like a map, you don't say you start at New York and end up in LA. The more details you have in there, the more accurate and worthwhile it is. When I started out my internet cafe, I had a 3 year projection laid out broken down by month, sales estimates, expenses, labor, everything I could think of. Before I took out the loan to buy my stuff, I knew exactly what the worst case scenario would be. Also, you always want to be super conservative in your plan. If things go better than expected, that is wonderful, but don't start a business plan expecting $30,000 in sales your first month. The most important single thing is your daily nut, or total cost to be open per day (or hour like streetwerkz). You HAVE to cover that. Its not an option.

I think one of the hardest things for someone starting a business to get a handle on is that bigger view. You have to look beyond the "I want $X per hour for my work" to the bigger overall picture of what it takes to keep your doors open. If the doors get locked, nothing else matters.

Oh and the results of my business plan...I was far to conservative on my sales (a good thing) and to conservative on set up costs (They add up so fast! I estimated everything and added 50% and I was still low) but I gave myself enough of a buffer going in that I was able to get going just fine. As things went along I went after expenses hard core as I said in another post and things blew up with a quickness.

[Streetwerkz]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

[quote="nolatodd"]

I asked him if he had a business plan and he told me "Yes! We make a bunch of shirts, sell them, and we get rich!".


sounds alot like my first business plan
Sadly it took us 4 years of fumbling around to finally search out the correct ways to run a business.... we learn more, and more every day
Knowing what I know now.... I don't know how we made it this far.
I certainly wish we would have focused on learning about business be for opening one.

[FirstYearDeek]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?



Just fill in the question mark...

-Deek

[rtpowdercoating]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

i think is an excellent idea. keep pursuing it.

[Streetwerkz]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

SBA.gov has a ton of free info that has helped up out.
they also have links to SBA satellite locations in every state that a person could visit, get free info, and counseling.
on running a business, learning "what is a business plan, how to make a biz plan, how to write a biz plan".
Admittedly for a dumb ass hillbilly like me it's a lil overwhelming, but this info has helped our company immensely, alot of foot work on our part, again well worth it.

[Guest]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

Well Juan looks like you and nolatodd are off to a good start working on this.
Goodluck

[Guest]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

Streetwerks your dead on. I just learned this method of pricing from Mark at the matal craft PC class. Starting out with 1 dollar a minute for labor. He also said some can charge as much as 1.50 per hour. When I got home and put that into more thought of my existing lawn business, I charge $45 per yard and Im done in 30 minutes. 1.50. But I've been doing that for 18 years. For me the most important part other than doing a good job is being efficient.

I agree every place is different, and charges/pays different amounts.

Juan]It seems like after a lot of discussion the idea of a price list sticky or dedicated pricing section doesn't seem like an effective way to assist members when making a decision on cost/profit. There are several reasons for this, it will be messy and difficult to query and it's also a false representation of what costs and prices should in an area-by-area basis.

nolatodd's post on the this thread got me thinking about a lot of other things that are not strictly related to pricing though.

I see a significant amount of posts covering the same common questions in regards to marketing (where do I find customers and do I get them?), equipment (should I build an oven or buy a new one?), other resources (blasting media, blasting cabinets, degrease, etc), and of course pricing.

Right now these posts are scattered through out the different sections without really being related to the area they are in. An example of this would be an oven or blasting cabinet that can be used to cure powder or ceramic.

I am suggesting a forum that contains stickies like.... I'm sure there is an endless number of threads, these are just some that I can think off the top of my head.

"Figuring out and starting your cost sheet"
"How to price ceramic coating jobs"
"How to calculate hours per job"

For us just starting out, and having NO CLUE what to charge
So we got online and found every price list we could find, averaged it out nationally, then called every powder coater in our state and price shopped them.

Then with anything, it was trial, and error from there, but by doing it this way we had a national average for pricing, and applied it locally.
has worked out pretty good for us as a BASIC guide.
as with anything, nothing is perfect.

You really have to add every cost you have, pay roll, electric, gas, phone, toilet paper, etc over the prior years bill, add 10% to the total number, and divide per 8 hr shift to get your hourly operating cost, then break it down to the minute. We bill in 15 minute increments divided by our hourly rate.
then we have to apply that figure to every person "man hours"
so if your shop rate is $10 pr hour, and 4 people are working, then $40 pr hour billed to you client.
sounds simple, but it can be tricky to get a handle on, but every second you are working on a clients part, you should get paid for it.

An example is a lawyer told me once over dinner that he had a idea jump in his head for a case he was working on. He excused himself from the table for 20 minutes to call his assistant and get his idea in motion. when he sat back down to the table to rejoin the conversation he logged his time to make sure his firm added the call time to the clients bill.

thats when it hit me that I need to get paid for every second of my time also, my job/work is just as important as the lawyers, and I should be compensated just as he is.

We should all be paid for every second of work we do

I agree.

[Guest]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

A good book to help with the small business starting out.
The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It

[Guest]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

There are also a couple of books that I have. Small Business Kit for Dummies (contains a CD with over 250 documents) also Small Business for Dummies (no CD).

I've never run a real business, but it's never to late to learn.

[Guest]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

I'm at the point now that I'm looking into all of the business stuff - registering a name, corp type, accounting, taxes, blah...blah...BLAH!

I've got no clue, but I'm going to have to figure it out I guess.

Any help in the form of a forum section would be great!


Jay

[Guest]

Re: Business Management or similar forum?

I'm at the point now that I'm looking into all of the business stuff - registering a name, corp type, accounting, taxes, blah...blah...BHAH!

I've got no clue, but I'm going to have to figure it out I guess.

Any help in the form of a forum section would be great!


Jay

Holler at Wiseguyz I'm pretty sure he knows all that stuff.