Some questions for guys with shops

[Guest]

So I was just talking about not worrying about getting a tax ID number in another thread...but this is a bit different...

I am thinking of opening a shop up and I am not quite as excited about just winging it if I have to get into a lease. I had a really nice deal going on in New Orleans till the storm went on, and now I am just about down to living on the streets here if I don't get something started. I know that I can't do the astounding masking work that you guys are doing yet, but I think I can get by doing some bike and sled frames and the like and it gives me a real shop to work on my art (which I never actually make much money on, but it keeps me from going postal so its a good thing). This area is filled with people who own either bikes, sleds, or boats and all those things look better sparkly

I have about 42 questions for you guys who run shops if you want to help me out here...

I was looking around some today for property. I am not going to be able to get away with anything zoned Commercial am I? Has to be light use Industrial (Usually called I1) as I am 'manufacturing'? Or can I get away with some kind of lesser sounding thing and get oked on a commercial spot?

Did you guys have any troubles with your ovens? I am mostly thinking landlords...but city too. I would want to bring in an oven as put together parts so that it would look 'real' and just rivet it together on the spot but did any of you guys landlords or city inspectors balk on the oven thing? I am thinking as long as I have an electrician wire it into a panel and the oven itself is all up to code and proper looking they will be cool with it.

I have seen scary talk about tires going wrong w the heat or whatever...what do you guys carry for insurance? Just a general liability for a half a mill or something? Will they cover you for some weird stuff like a customer saying you caused their part to fail? (Not that it would be right or anything...that's irrelevant )

I am worried about the noise too. I need like an old auto shop or something like that I was thinking. I don't know what they are zoned, but I would think that powder coating would fit into the same kind of use as car repair and painting.

I am in an area that I could probably go out of city limits too which might be a really good idea except that I am worried about being able to get people to come out that far. I am way out on the west side of the twin cities area. Anything past me isn't suburbs any more its country. I was checking around on google maps, and there are only a couple places anywhere near this side of town and none within like 10 miles of the lake area at all. If I do it right, I am pretty sure I could get into a smaller space for under $1000 a month. There are some pretty mellow (as far as commercial space goes) areas around here that I would think I can find something in and there are a ton of people out here with huge amounts of cash. The average house on the lake here is probably $400k or more and they go up to AIG style $$$. With utilities and all I should be able to do something like $50 a day nut or less if I can find the right spot.

Sooooo.....answers, hints, suggestions, horrible idea...what ya say?

[Guest]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

I don't have a shop but I can provide some feedback based on what I've researched.

Most places I spoke with required a 1 million dollar insurance policy to sign a lease.

In Nevada, Powder coating does not get categorized the same as Auto Repair, Paint, or Tires. These are usually more severe and have a lot more regulations. Auto deals with oil and fuel, paint & body work goes with VOC and that's a headache, and tires are in their own category.

I'll post up whatever else I can remember or find through all my paper work. These things change from state to state but at least it will give you something to think about and should generate some good questions.

[Guest]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

Yea I just started to look into all of this stuff in the past couple of days so I need to read some local city codes and see what they want to put me as. Avoiding the toxic headings is key I am sure.

[Streetwerkz]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

Around here powder coating has next to no regulation, or severe negative condemnations.
the only thing I have come across is an E.P.A. guy stopped by to check out how we handle, and contain our pre treatment chems.
construction permits suck!!
We had to have a $2 mill insurance policy via our lease, not to bad however, again no nuclear associations with powder coating.
1/4 mil gen liability
powder coating it self is classified as a nuisance dust, so you should be able to fit in to a wider variety of zoning categories I would think

I say go for it!!!
masking only sucks until you do enough of it, and the next thing you know you've mastered it.

[Guest]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

hehe yea I have faith I can master masking...I just wont be kicking out any 3 color wheels with little friggin lines around em (jesus you guys are nuts) quite yet.

I have been pouring over the city codes for the 2 little towns that are right here and I am not seeing a single word about powder coating. Car repair is definitely not a thing I want to mention. I am thinking that powder coating is a service, not a manufacturing process. Anyone else with me on that line of thought? I don't want to 'make' anything...just fix things up nicer. Some type of repair heading possibly? One issue I can already see I will have is that there is about 500 towns within 10 miles of me. Every damn cove on the lake here is a new town so I will have to figure out what up for each place I want to look at. I spoke with 3 different landlords and each one at least pretended to know what I was talking about when I said I wanted to use the space for a powder coating shop. 1 of them told me he thought that Excelsior would not let me in at all as they would say I was industrial and they don't have any industrial zones.

So you have liability or like business loss insurance for the lease? and then just a general liability for the shop(aka you screw something up or someone gets hurt)? That isn't to bad though eh? like a grand a year or less? Well if its biz loss it might be more...I never messed with that. New Orleans was so awesome...cash talks down there, anything goes.

It is super odd, but I too have been categorized as a 'nuisance dust' and I fit in pretty well into way more zones than you would ever expect...maybe its destiny!

[Streetwerkz]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

I would never say the word "automotive" anything when dealing with insurance OUCH!!!
I think we are around $2 k a year for insurance, when we were a custom auto shop, it was close to that a MONTH!!!
I repeat, do not mention automotive parts!!!

[Guest]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

I would never say the word "automotive" anything when dealing with insurance OUCH!!!
I think we are around $2 k a year for insurance, when we were a custom auto shop, it was close to that a MONTH!!!
I repeat, do not mention automotive parts!!!

Yup! See my first post. Automotive = oil, gas, and LOUD cars. Stay away from that. Tell him you're doing door gates or bicycle handle bars. Just stay away from anything automotive.

[Guest]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

So wait, you are saying the name I came up with might not be good?

"Todds automotive parts, toxic chemical dump, loud ass sandblasting and nusance dust emporium"

That kind of sucks because I already registered TAPTCDLASBANDE.com

[Streetwerkz]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

So wait, you are saying the name I came up with might not be good?

"Todds automotive parts, toxic chemical dump, loud ass sandblasting and nusance dust emporium"

That kind of sucks because I already registered TAPTCDLASBANDE.com

just shrink it down to "Todd's" then you don't have any worry's

[Guest]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

So wait, you are saying the name I came up with might not be good?

"Todds automotive parts, toxic chemical dump, loud ass sandblasting and nusance dust emporium"

That kind of sucks because I already registered TAPTCDLASBANDE.com

I like "TAPCO (or TCD) Dust Emporium" though.... That'd be one of the coolest Powdercoating Names I've seen so far! You could make up a different first part like LAST Dust Emporium (covering the Loud Assed Sandblasting by Todd)

COLOR DUST EMPORIUM Sounds good too.

[rbroker]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

Unless you're confident you can fill your shop with work for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, then I'd hold off. But Its a huge gamble in these economic times. Its one thing to be busy for a week or three but to fill it with that much work takes time and a clientele list as long as my.....

I looked for industrial space last summer, 1000 sq feet. Its was in the $2.50-3/sqft per month. They were prime locations though included everything but electricity.

To make a livable wage lets say 40K/year after taxes/rent/utilities/ you'd have to be pulling in almost $1200-1500 a week. That's a lot of work.

just my .02 though.

[Guest]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

Well first off a new business never is full non stop. As a matter of fact I doubt any business is. My internet cafe was running at about 15% of the maximum capacity it could do when I lost it and at that I was pulling in about 60k a year and not working in it at all.

Industrial/warehouse space here is running $3-8 per sq foot + CAM per year.


You know that is really funny Scottrods...Dust Emporium is a great name isn't it hahaha. yea that one really is registered now

[Guest]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

Unless you're confident you can fill your shop with work for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, then I'd hold off. But Its a huge gamble in these economic times. Its one thing to be busy for a week or three but to fill it with that much work takes time and a clientele list as long as my.....

I looked for industrial space last summer, 1000 sq feet. Its was in the $2.50-3/sqft per month. They were prime locations though included everything but electricity.

To make a livable wage lets say 40K/year after taxes/rent/utilities/ you'd have to be pulling in almost $1200-1500 a week. That's a lot of work.

just my .02 though.

You're right on with that.

Right now I'm in the process of deciding just what I need to do next. I want to register a name and get set-up with all of the other business stuff. I plan to keep working out of my garage, but am worried I might run into a snag and be forced to get a space.

I'm not exactly busy, but haven't really been trying to get "out there" yet because of all the business issues. I really need to stay put for a while before looking for a space. It would take a lot of rearsets and other cycle parts to pay the rent, and I don't see that type of quantity just popping up.

Right now I'm planning on getting some free counseling from a Small Business Association in the area and see where it goes from there. I need to find a good way to describe the business without tossing up any red flags.


Jay

[Guest]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

haha jay exactly! how about this...from a fairly mellow local towns zoning laws:

Service Shops. Consumer oriented retail businesses offering repair and maintenance services for normal household goods and commodities. Service shops shall include but not be limited to tailors, shoe repair, and repair of small appliances, lawn and garden equipment, and tools.

That sounds like powder coating to me eh? repairing and maintaining normal household goods and commodities (i.e. cheese I think or up here I guess probably brauts). The key is to stay away from anything automotive or mechanical sounding and paint is bad too I bet (sounds toxic!).

On the money thing...man...work up a business plan. Unless you are sinking yourself way into debt or trying to score the best spot in town, you can get away with a pretty low overhead on a single man operation. Luckily I still had property outside of hurricane zones...so I am able to live pretty cheaply. When you work everything out, you don't need that much to keep the doors open. Eating is another thing. When I said in my other post a $50 nut, that means per day on average I would have to bring in $50 to keep the doors open. That is $1500 per month (All months have 30 days, and all customers need widgets though possibly not your widgets). I was looking at a place today for $500 rent. I would have to put up a little more for an office to, maybe another $100, so call it $600 for rent. utilities were included in that and internet but i would need a phone, call that another $100, trash, call that $100, insurance, call that $200. random office shit another $100. $1100 per month to sit there. $37 per day.

Who was it that posted the astounding wet black/red/other black (was it flat?) tires like a week ago? If I had a good memory I would be dangerous. That set of tires was a days work. 1 guy, A whole damn day. $500. If you could stay 8 hrs a day/5 days a week busy, that comes out to $2500 a week, $10k a month, $8900 profit (- powder costs and other consumables, call that a hundred a day) leaves nearly 6k a month, over 70k a year.

There are other expenses of course. Equipment, advertising, doing things like shows or whatever. Any of those should better than pay for themselves or they aren't worth doing. If you do it right, you can make it work. I work 6 days a week, but you usually do all of your averages out to a month so you just look at it as 30 days in a month, you got to do that so it averages out EVERY day even when you are not working.

Now do NOT get me wrong...that isn't my business plan!!! MY plan more involves starting at shooting for closer to a $50-75 a day average. If I could pull in $75 that would be $25 per day in profit, $750 per month. Hellish, but a start. At $100 or $150 a day though, that becomes quite livable. $150 a day would be about 36k a year. As I said, my living expenses are low, I could eat on that.

I think that there are some great markets out here, and with some work, I think that I can get sales up enough to cover some small nut like that. I want to try and partner up with some existing places and powder coat things they are already selling like the computer case I did. Kids are paying $300 and more for that. Its some work to take it apart and reassemble, but it's sure not a day if you got it together. That piece was like the 3rd thing I did and it took me a couple of days. I can buy a case for like $30, heck I have a few around here I could use. Coat em up, each side in a different color even, and give it to a computer shop. How many kids are going to walk by that before 1 of them simple MUST have it. My cost on the case...what...$4-5 if I use 1 I got, its easy to find an old worthless computer to get new ones too. You tell the shop you will coat a case for $300, they charge whatever they want. 2 or 3 shops selling 1 a month would almost cover the nut I am talking about. (3 cases @ $300 = 900 - $60 for powder = $840 per month profit or 76% of that $1100 total. That $500 a day in sales idea is a nice long term goal, but you are never going to have a business be that successful out the gate unless it is illegal

[Guest]

Re: Some questions for guys with shops

Thanks Todd.

Great points, I especially like your last sentence!


Jay